Demystifying Revolvers: A Deep Dive into Their Relevance and Versatility in the Modern Era w/Bryan Eastridge

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi, welcome to the Arm Guardian Podcast, season one, episode four. Today, david and I will be talking with Brian Eastridge of the Eastridge Training and Consulting LLC. Our topic for today's podcast will be revolvers Are they still a valid concealed carry weapon or concealed carry in the rise of semi-automatics? So sit back, enjoy and listen to today's podcast. And here we go. Hi, welcome to the Arm Guardian Podcast. I'm your host, brian, and we have David here and we've got a guest today. That a topic that some people say is a little outdated for concealed carriers with the advent of semi-automatics. Brian Eastridge, he's here to join us and talk to us about revolvers and are they still valid for the concealed carrier? How you doing, brian?

Speaker 2: 0:52

You doing great Thanks. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Thanks for joining us. So who is Brian Eastridge and what do you do?

Speaker 2: 1:03

Well, we're a number of hats, let's see. I guess the main gig I have is I'm co-owner of EDC Belt Company. We make a concealed carry belt. It's kind of purpose built for the armed citizen, you know, it's reinforced where it needs to be and it's nice and comfy where it should be. So that was a project of mine that was born out of years of wearing a sand brown duty belt and chronic sciatica and all those things. And I figured out through after a vacation that it really wasn't my duty belt that was causing all those problems. It was. It was a particular concealed carry belt. So I started that in 2019, sell them through our website through LangdonTacticalcom. Ernest and Amy sell them and then concealed carry Inc sells them as well. So yeah, that's kind of my main gig. And then I have another LLC. It's Eastridge Training and Consulting. I do some firearms industry consulting at times, do some open enrollment training. Very little anymore I just don't have time. I do enjoy it, but the last couple of years I've just haven't had the time to do it. So I mainly teach it like conference type stuff and then I'll do one or two open enrollments a year but teaching it like the Guardian Nation Conference and then the Pat Rogers Memorial Revolve around up at gun site. I teach there every year and yeah, that's a fun one If you get a chance. I think there's like five or six spots left for that this year and it's in November, it's the weekend before Thanksgiving and it's a great hang and it's just learn a lot of revolver history and talk to some armed professionals that have carried them and how they train with them that whole nine yards. And then I have the off duty on duty podcast and this time of year that one kind of slows down because this is kind of the busy season through about December. So I try to get one out a month. Sometimes I get one out every two weeks. A lot of good guests on there, everybody from Rob Latham to Haney Mcmood to Feral Bulk he's been on a bunch and Eric Galehouse some other guys that. Lee Weems has been on a couple of times in our mutual buddy and that's that's kind of it. Now that I've retired from law enforcement I seem to be busier than I ever was when I was a cop.

Speaker 1: 3:53

So yeah, always works out like that.

Speaker 2: 3:57

Everybody told me that, and I was like no, I'm going to work like two, three days a week.

Speaker 1: 4:00

And then, man, my phone started ringing and it hadn't stopped so yeah, I like your podcast the arm on duty, off duty because you incorporate the view from both worlds the law enforcement perspective and then the concealed carriers perspective. So I really like that and I think I got David Attatt in love with it also. So I committed it to him, and a good one, like what you do on that.

Speaker 2: 4:33

Well, it was when that was hashed. You know the producers and I talked about it, and so we want you to do the cop and concealed carrier perspective, and I said I can sum that up in like two sentences like you know, citizens aren't under any obligation to put handcuffs on anybody. Right, ta-da done you know, and it's like no, come on, but anyway, that was, and I that's that's been going. I was two years in July, so they remember as two or three. So yeah, two years ago, July so all right.

Speaker 1: 5:12

Well, we'll go ahead and jump into some of our topic questions that we have here. One thing I get people coming a lot of the classes that I teach a lot of people bring of course the favorite is the semi automatic pistol and I get why it's the favorite of the multiple, you know more rounds in the revolver and things like that. But I think revolvers still have a valid primary concern for the concealed carrier as a primary weapon to carry and there are some issues that with the revolver that you know gender and age and stuff like that I know play a part in. But our revolver still a valid for CCW and the world semi-automatics.

Speaker 2: 6:05

Under some circumstances, I think they're. They kind of pay an advantage, right, but I think they're a little more. I won't say I want to say niche, but they they kind of fit two things for carrying them every day. They're kind of niche for a fire extinguisher at home. They fit, they fit that role so well and that's that's really where I think they they live, until you get to a certain point in training and understanding of methodologies that that you could really take an advantage from them.

Speaker 1: 6:45

Right, yeah, I know one of the things that I see and with the industry I'll see a lot of the elderly that will come to classes and the gun shops or pawn shops know, hey, you're just looking for something to throw in a purse or a nightstand and that revolver is simple, you just aim and press the trigger or pull the trigger as they usually say. But I've had people come that have a problem with that 12 pound trigger press on the double action and you don't really want them to carry or present it in a single action mode unless you know they really know what they're doing because of the potential for a negative discharge. So that's one of my concerns with the. I don't want to cover the gun industry as a whole but you know, for the ones that are looking to kind of push off stuff that don't really invest the time into fitting the gun to the carrier or the person that's wanting to buy it. But I've also had some issues with some of the I won't name the brand but some of the semi autos that have the grip safety for elderly people, that where they just can't grip the gun hard enough to deactivate that safety to fire the semi automatic. So kind of a I think, a double edge sword. But I think conceal revolvers are a good option, definitely for a backup if you decide you want to carry a backup, and then for the home defense. I think that it really fits in well with them.

Speaker 2: 8:31

Yeah, I think the industry as a whole. There are very few like point of sale, I, the. You go above that to distributor level, that they're not dealing with the customer. Right, you go above that to the, the manufacturers. They have a pretty good understanding of, like, what makes revolvers great. Fortunately, revolvers were born out of a time when skilled labor was cheap and engineering was expensive, and now that role has kind of flipped where you know the engineering side of the house, you know solid works, man, that that's the program everybody's using to design stuff nowadays and it's a lot more attainable than it was in 1909 and prior. But but skilled labor in that era was cheap. You know, I have a real love for pre-1939 revolvers and their works of art. But somebody was making, you know, a dollar an hour to make to build those you know, or 50 cents an hour, right, those days are gone. So but your end gun shop salespeople don't really have a good idea because, let's face it, the people that are working those roles unless it's, you know, a part time gig or you know somebody that's older, retired, wants a job they're typically not very high paying jobs and they're typically staffed by people that grew up with the Glock 19. Right, and that's not a, that's not a knock at that, that generation or that, that end user. And there are some exceptions to that. I mean there's exceptions to everything. But a lot of you know a lot of the younger generation now. You hand them a revolver and they look at it like a Rubik's cube. And I'm actually kind of in the young category for being somebody that that has a pretty deep understanding of revolvers. So that's kind of my two cents as to why that those wires get crossed up and right. And I've had some really highly respected instructors that are older than me that you know. I say, hey, you got any revolvers, you want to have a wheel again day. I don't really understand revolver Never shot them, right, you know, and these are people in their fifties and it's like oh man and unless you were in law enforcement, the semi auto pistol I mean even the military adopted it back in the teens. So it's the LE world was slow to get on the auto bus, but you know that's been like the agency I worked for transition to autos in 1990, you know 1990 was well quite a long time ago now. Yeah, so, 30, 30 some years ago.

Speaker 1: 11:33

Yeah, and something to people you know understanding the revolvers or the different frame sizes you know, like the J frame, the L frame, the in frame and stuff, and just know what's the difference in them, because someone like me, with the person with a large hand, a J frame revolver is can be a little bit of a challenge to handle Compared to the in frame and K and L frame models.

Speaker 2: 12:02

Yeah, and the benefit you have is a wide variety of stock options, right, right, I'm not talking about S&P 500. I'm like the actual stocks on the gun, right, the grips. You know you can tailor a revolver way way more than you can tailor a semi auto. A semi auto, you know you've got the options of burn it with a soldering iron or slap tape on it, right, yeah, and some of the newer modern semi autos, they like the HK VP 9, has a lot of modularity to it. But even that degree of modularity doesn't really change the reach to the trigger, which is the critical one. Right and J frames, to me they fit. They fit a really specific role and and it's one that most people in training will not explore because, let's face it, there's only maybe 10, 15,000 people in the whole United States that quote go take training above. You know something very basic.

Speaker 1: 13:08

So, david, you want to ask the next question.

Speaker 3: 13:10

Yes, sir, can you hear me all right? Yeah, all right, brian. So with all the many different calibers out there for revolvers I know a lot of people are using now for hunting in many different different areas of of the firearms world, which one would you recommend, or what do you like? Or maybe a few of them?

Speaker 2: 13:33

Well for small and medium frame revolvers. If you're going to buy a revolver today, just buy a 38 special. There's no need to shoot 357 magnum unless you're hunting bears or something you know. I mean 357 is just punishing. 38 special you can practice with a lighter downloaded cartridge. You can carry a plus P. But if you're going to get a barrel length below like three inches, just get standard velocity 38 specials. There's really no benefit going going anything hotter than that if you're going below three inch barrels. But 38 to me is probably the most versatile that's out there and that's mainly because you have a wide variety. You can go very light bullet very fast with very low recoil, or you can go a medium bullet with medium recoil, or you can go a really heavy bullet and hurt yourself. I mean it's just an all points in between. One wise 38 special is probably the most affordable and it's the easiest to find versus, you know, 44 mag, 44 special, 32, h&r stuff like that. But yeah, 38 special and I tell people, if you've got, if you've got an interest in revolvers, they made something like 12 million K frame model tens and M&Ps, which is your, you know, medium frame K frame, smith and Wesson specifically, they've made like a. They made them since 1899. They're in like. There's a used one in every gun shop in America. They can typically be had for 500 or less dollars and just if that's what you want to learn, then you know model 64, model 10, model model 13s or 357 mag chamber. The reason I discourage people from going and jumping in the 357 mag pool is if you go to your local gun shop in the salesman that looks at a revolver like a Rubik's Cube, sees 357 magnum on the side, what ammunition is he going to try to sell you? 357 mag, right, and you're going to shoot it six times and go. I'm never touching that again. Versus, if you say I want a 38 special and the salesman says, oh well, here's a 357 mag and you can shoot either one, well, now you're talking to somebody that's at least somewhat informed. But yeah, I really recommend get a medium frame 38 special and invest the time there, learn it there and you can go smaller or larger from there, right, make sense.

Speaker 3: 16:25

Yes, sir, and that kind of leads me to, I guess, what you mentioned, that the different sizes. As far as the barrel length, I know that I've seen snub nose up to eight inch, and there may be even some bigger. I'm not sure. I'm not as familiar with revolvers as probably you are, but do you recommend one size in particular? Are there different situations where one size might be better? Your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 16:49

Yeah. So for the quasi arm professional, a three inch or a three and a half inch barrel, that is like the gunfighter length, right that's. I've got like five, three inch model 10s and some in frame 27s that are three and a half inch because they're the perfect balance and you get a full length ejector rod. And people are like, what do you mean by that? Well, if you go to a snub the rod will not, is not long enough to fully extract the cartridges. So a three inch gun, you can. You can fully unseat the spent cartridges, which is important if you're going to carry that in a quasi professional manner. The pocket snub is one of my favorites. I've got a couple of friends that that's saved their bacon and the ability is. My good friend Darrell bulky has kind of coined a term. With a snub revolver in a pocket holster, you know, on your strong side, you can casually stand there and not alarm anybody and have your hand fully in a firing grip on a gun that you can deliver in under a second. And you may have seen the videos, darrell, me and a guy named Rhett Neemire, we've all, we've all demoed that. And the funny part of that is, you know for the semi auto community that spends an inordinate amount of time trying to get below a sub second draw to first shot. You know, with moving pieces and all that, it's like we can throw a sucker punch from the pocket and be there in about a half second. And I'm not saying that's a great primary role, but Darrell coined it as covered, low, ready. So it's everything's concealed and covered, but I'm, I'm, I'm ready, ready to act, and it doesn't look socially offensive to people if you're standing there with your hand in your pocket. So I think that's a really valid method and for that you need that sub, that two inch or less barrel and generally a pretty light revolver, which are not the most pleasant to shoot. But fortunately in that format what seems to be the best functioning ammo is either your lead semi-wad cutter at standard velocity or your 148 grain target wide cutter. And there's some really good companies out there that are making very consistent ammo that's loaded just a touch above what match ammo would be loaded for, like Curtis Shipley at GA Arms makes a wide cutter that'll run 750 feet per second out of an inch and seven, eight inch Smith Wesson J-frame, and that that round is purpose built as a defensive round and it everything. We see it flat works, it's like it's solid and you can, if you're a reloader you can kind of mimic that and download it a little bit and be easier on your wrists and everything else. So so that's kind of the two barrel links I recommend. But like I said, if you're just starting out on a revolver, a four inch old I call them the old cop service guns, a four, a four inch, model 10, 64, 65, uh, ruger GP, something like that Um, I mean they're they're still reasonably affordable and a four inch barrel you can do just about anything with.

Speaker 1: 20:24

So yeah, I think that the revolvers, if you do carry four concealed, you know it takes a lot more watching. You know, situational awareness in my opinion is that, you know, coming from the looking back at my military career whenever I was in the M16A1, which was a full automatic version, and then they decided, hey, we're going to go to the three round burst model and get rid of the full auto to get rid of the spray and pray, I see that kind of in the atmosphere, the semi auto and the revolver debate or topic that revolvers. You have to be more intense, specific on your target. It takes a little bit more practice with it but it eliminates that. I've got 15 rounds, I'm just going to pull the trigger and you know, and spray and pray as we used to call it in the military. I just think the revolver, you know, if you practice with it, you can actually reload fairly quickly with a speed loader or strip loader. Yeah, your semi autos are going to load a little bit more, you're going to have more rounds, but it's going to make you more intent on focusing on your sight, picture and target than just ganking on that trigger in a stress situation and unloading 15 rounds that will hit who knows where what. You have any thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 22:04

Yeah, if you, if you look at the armed citizen defense side, what do we constantly hear? The typical defensive shooting is what? Three rounds, three or exactly three seconds, right, that's about, by the time, by the time the second, you know, 1000, 2000,. Pretty much the victor is determined in that, yeah, so Capacity in that particular instance To me gives you can give a little bit of that for the ability to rapidly deploy it and the ability to consistently rapidly deploy it. One of the things I like to do and I got this from Wayne Dobbs is when I'm briefing a class I have everybody you know, look, hey, look around at everybody. We are at pistol gunfight distance, just a little over an arms length, right. Yeah, for the, for the typical concealed carry roll like pistol fight distance is conversation distance. So a revolver can really be deployed quickly in that, without having to move, cover garments and and do a whole lot else, you can deploy it pretty rapidly. So that for me is where it takes a huge benefit and I have the absolute fastest revolver reload that you can time and it's called haul another revolver out, don't worry about reloading the first one, right, and that's another place that revolvers kind of hold. A special meaning to me is there is no magazine. So well, there is technically. But but as far as capacity, get another revolver and the ability to carry two, say one in each front pocket or one in the jacket pocket and one in a pants pocket you have some. You have some flexibility there to and an added layer of safety with that longer, heavier trigger pull. It's pretty deliberate to make one of those go off. So having two of them on your person is a little even I won't say less to manage, but it's easier to manage than most people would think.

Speaker 3: 24:27

And I have a question go along with what you just said, Brian. Yeah, you talked about carrying two revolvers. So would you think that that would be a better way to go than maybe carrying a revolver and speed loaders, I guess? If so, then you know kind of your thoughts on that.

Speaker 2: 24:44

So if, if I'm going to, let's say, I'm going to a place that's maybe capacity unfriendly, a state that even with Leosa, there might be some question as to, well, can I have a 10 round magazine or an eight round magazine or this or that you know, or I'm going somewhere that my apparel will not allow me to put on a semi auto pistol and conceal it very well, and I know you're going to get hate mail Well, by this holster and you can do whatever. My response to that is OK, gunfighter, you do you. But if I've got to wear like a sport jacket, something like that, yeah, I can. Ok, I can, strong side conceal I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can conceal that fairly well. But what happens when my split sport jacket, my Colt commander, pops out of the back of it? Does that offend people that are around you and maybe get you asked to leave wherever you're right? So if I can drop a revolver in a pocket and then drop another revolver in a jacket pocket, right, it's pretty, pretty invisible, especially with a compact revolver. And then, if the need arises for a reload, I have another delivery system for it. And if I've got a speedstrip or two. I mean, I'm sorry if you're, if you're hauling two revolvers out, you have probably selected where your life is taking you poorly. Right, if you're going to revolver number two, you might. You might want to think about what restaurants are going to eat at or something like is it really worth it? But? But typically when I carry one, I'll carry like I've got an older model 13 and an appendix rig from JM, and then I'll carry a J frame in my pocket or some type of snub in my pocket or Ruger LCR, and then I've generally got a speedstrip, an eight round speedstrip that's spaced to four, six, so I can reload either gun if I needed to. Now, granted, that's pretty, that's a pretty niche thing, that's a pretty low prior or I won't say low priority, but low, low in the law of averages. But and generally, if I can appendix carry a revolver, I could probably appendix carry an auto, but I still like to have a revolver in the pocket, because man lifting your shirt up and hauling a semi auto out kind of gets people's attention versus and I may not need to use this, but at least I got my hand on it and I'm ready to that's. That's to me is where it pays huge dividends, so I hope I answered that for you.

Speaker 3: 27:37

Yes, sir. So another question I've got so with all the now you got the hammerless revolvers out there. I know it's not necessarily traditional, but a lot of people I see are going to those. I see them a lot in gun stores. What's your thoughts on those? Would you even recommend them? What kind of what are their there? I guess areas where they might be more useful than a traditional hammer revolver.

Speaker 2: 28:34

Most of the guns that I carry haven't enclosed a small small ones having enclosed shrouded hammer or a concealed hammer. And that's two reasons One, it's not going to snag on anything and two, you're not going to get debris into the gun. I do have a bodyguard model 49 there that I don't carry. It sets for one K, again right, and they have a hammer that's exposed in between the, the shroud of the of the frame. I really prefer for business guns formats like the Smith 4, 4, 2, 6 4 2 or the rigor LCR that's completely sealed up, because Brian's probably been at a police range when they inspect your gun and somebody gets an air hose out and you blow about four pounds of pocket lint out of them, it's, it's a thing. But also if they're pretty snag proof. So I like that particular format. On guns that have a hammer spur that are business guns and not 401 K guns, I prefer to have the hammer spur cut, and for two reasons One, snag right, unless it's a collector's piece, right, but you're just showing off at the, the little barbecue or whatever. But. But make them double action only. The reason I say that is then there is no question that if you fired the gun. It was deliberate, right, right, and you're going to immediately eliminate the while he cocked the gun and didn't mean to fire it, or she or cocked the gun and it had a hair trigger. Well, if you disable the single action ability and yeah, that there was 14 pounds of reasoning behind why I fired, there are 12 pounds, or whatever it is, of reason and time to think this over as I'm pressing it. So right, I'm a proponent of, of unrevolvers, double action only. There's there's really no reason to shoot him, single action.

Speaker 1: 30:54

Right yeah. And if you buy a second hand or get one handed down, I've seen people that don't know the gun, don't know, especially if it's been handed down or bought at a pawn shop or something used, if they don't know any type of trigger work that's been done on it or any specialty work, and if they are, you know, expect that long heavy double action trigger pull or that even that lighter single action pull if they've had it that shaved down to make it lighter. I was at the gun range the other day with a buddy of mine and he had a rifle that he had built himself and he said, hey, it's safe and everything, but just press the trigger on this thing. I went over there, he forked the bolt, I put my finger, I just barely touched the trigger and bam and I said, wow, that's a real sensitive. I couldn't. That's had to be a specialty gun just for him to bullseye or shoot or something like that. But I'm not a proponent myself really of getting a whole lot of specialty work, because then you open yourself up for a lot of liability with, if you are involved in something, to bring in questions and that's. We don't want that in a self defense incident.

Speaker 2: 32:24

Yeah, I, I subscribe to the. On a pistol, your trigger should weigh a minimum of double what that gun weighs. That's just kind of an easy rule, right, if it's fully loaded and it weighs two and a half pounds, we want to have a four and a half to five and a half pound trigger and there is some companies in the industry that don't subscribe to that. But to each his own. That's why and typically you know I carry in retirement the gun I probably carry the most is a Glock 42 380. And it's got a front sight that's been replaced, that's it. And it's got about a four and a half five pound trigger and I don't have any issue with that. I don't have any issue of ring and steel at 50 yards with it If I need to. It's just I'm not a real proponent of business guns, lightning triggers and, and you know, putting the super duper competition, match this, that and the other. It's like, keep it simple, if nothing else for your own safety. So you've got a little extra layer of forgiveness If you do something semi sort of wrong, right, right, and that's the the thing with revolvers is, you know, would, would you carry a semi auto with a four pound trigger in your pocket with no holster. Everybody look at you like it's ludicrous, right? Could you throw a revolver in an empty pocket if you went to go get your mail, and pretty well be assured that as long as there's nothing else in there, you're, you're reasonably safe doing so.

Speaker 1: 34:13

Right yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:14

I mean, yeah, To me the only thing like you were talking about hammer spurs the only thing a hammer spurs good for is to like, ease the hammer back a little bit and spin the cylinder and make sure I don't have a high primer. That's about it.

Speaker 3: 34:30

That pretty much answered the next question I had. But that being said so, you would never know. That's great. With that being said so, you'd never see an opera, to see a place where you would actually need a single action trigger pool.

Speaker 2: 34:46

Just one. If you're carrying a Ruger Vecchero or a Ruger Red Hawk or Black Hawk or something like that, that's single action only then you absolutely have to but Colt Single Action Army. But, as the name implies, it's but but that there, you know, I don't see people carrying those for defensive work outside of, like you know, hikers in Montana and Alaska and things like that, where Having a gun with the hammer down that's physically unable to fire, if it's, you know, getting knocked around in a pack or something. But even there I mean, look at the Ruger Alaskan series you know they named it after the place and and their heavy bore large caliber. But as far as single action shooting, I just on a double action revolver, I don't see a need for it there. Might you know, maybe if you had a double action silhouette gun built up or something, but in the defensive context it's it's pretty well completely unnecessary. I kind of think if somebody's far enough away that you need to make a precision shot with a revolver in the armed citizen context that means they're far enough away. You could probably run right.

Speaker 3: 36:05

Yes, sir.

Speaker 2: 36:06

That's now. I mean there's again, there's exceptions to everything. Could you end up in some scenario where that might be necessary? Yes, but distance equals time. So there's, you know, there's just not a lot. I can see where there's a benefit to it and I see a lot more negatives on that, number one being typically a double action revolver. If you cock it and put it in a single action mode will not shoot to the same place, it will double action or vice versa. So yeah, it's, it's kind of unnecessary.

Speaker 3: 36:44

Yes, sir, I agree with that.

Speaker 1: 36:49

Oh, what kind of drills do you kind of encourage or think a revolver carrying person should practice with? Kind of be proficient for both accuracy as well as defensive shooting? What are some drills that you think they should practice on?

Speaker 2: 37:13

I like Justin Diles, five yard roundup. Now you're going to have to reload in there, but it's everything's a two and a half second part time and it's one from the holster in two and a half. Four rounds from a low, ready in two and a half seconds, and then with a five shot revolver, six, eight you're going to need to reload and then three shots strong hand only, three shots off, gunhand only. In. All of those phases are two and a half seconds. So it's 10 rounds, two and a half. You set up timer to a two and a half second part time. That's a really good one If you're, if you're new at a revolver. I really like, if it's not a rimfire, what Larry Mudgeit calls skip loading, which is put a round in it, spin the cylinder and then close it. Don't whip it close, that'll break it. But close it and roll through the trigger, open the cylinder, spend the cylinder, close it, roll through the trigger and get, get into the press trigger or roll the trigger and don't move the gun. And then when you fire a shot okay, now I opened the cylinder, I put another cartridge in, spin it to where I've got five empty or four empties, or five empties in it and one live round and then work up to where I can roll through that cylinder and when the shot goes it should go to its intended location. That'll get you into the discipline of rolling a revolver trigger and not staging it. That's just a practice exercise and I'm giving that away for my class at big techs ordinance in a couple of weeks here. Oops, no, but that's that's how I like to practice with them. You remember the military's dime washer drill?

Speaker 1: 39:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:08

You can start out with a fired case or a, you know with an empty gun, and roll the revolver trigger and try to keep a, keep something on the front side or on the barrel or something to that effect. That's a. That's a really good training method. There's the super snubby test which I ran this two days ago with the new Kimber K6, ultra light, whatever six shot hammerless revolver, and I've got to say I might have to get one of those. But but it's gosh, greg Elefritz just posted it. It's 10, 10 yards, it's five rounds and 12 seconds. You go to five yards, you're shooting freestyle, two handed on the gun, it's it's five rounds and five seconds. And then you go strong hand only at three yards and it's five rounds and three seconds. I do, if I'm not necessarily, three and a half. It's kind of a modification of the hit super test. With five round and six round guns. I like to set partimes at about one shot per second Once you get proficient. Before that I like one round every two seconds, something like that. But yeah, like there's. Just there's a ton of revolver exercises out there. Unfortunately, a lot of them are holdovers from police training where it's a 50 round qualification session and, it's like you know, break some pieces of that up and and I tend to not practice reloads under time with a revolver Because, like I said, my answer is haul another revolver out, right, that's. That's the the most reliable reload there is for a revolver Speedstrip speedloaders. I prefer speed strips but mainly because they take up less space, so Easier to hide.

Speaker 1: 41:18

Yeah, those speedloaders kind of bulge out a little bit if you're carrying it in a pocket and stuff, especially if you're carrying a typical gene pocket instead of a jacket or something like that. Yeah, and if I'm wearing a revolver, I'm wearing a revolver, something like that.

Speaker 2: 41:38

Yeah, and if I'm wearing a jacket during the winter time, I'll carry speedloaders in a jacket pocket on the same side as the gun, and then I'll carry maybe one or two on the other side, just so you. You know, you've got the flexibility, but and I typically carry HKS or comp two speedloaders.

Speaker 1: 42:00

So Well, I'm partial to the HKS being coming from the law enforcement side, that's what we typically carried where I worked at when I carried a revolver. So, yeah, I was listening, what a drill that I kind of adapted. And I was listening to you and Wayne talking the other couple of weeks ago on the podcast with the drills favorite drills that law enforcement have, and I kind of adopted one that I like that's good for both semi auto and revolver and it's the Todd greens 2666 to drill. But I I run it twice and run it as a reload, so I'll put in five. If it's in a semi auto, I'll put five rounds in each magazine and shoot the drill, reload and then shoot the drill again just to incorporate work in that reload and then also doing it in a revolver. No, five rounds. That's typically what most of your excuse me your revolvers are capable of, unless you have a larger frame, six round cylinder, but got your five rounds that you can fire off and then reload how you're reloading, whether it's drips or speed loaders, and fire it again and then you've got that, the target acquisition and the boot. A little bit of movement that you're doing from the two inch to the six inch circle, and that's one that I've practiced quite a bit, not even in my classes, whenever I do advanced. I really pushed that, that drill, just because it incorporates so many things in one drill.

Speaker 2: 43:42

Yeah, yeah, there's. There's tons of good revolver exercises and I I you know I subscribed to the range master newsletter and Greg Elefrit's active response training his knowledge dump. Get on his email list and you know he links. He does a weekend knowledge dump every weekend and there's generally there's something on revolvers in there. There's a Facebook post or exercise or an article or something that he links to, or he wrote up one on the super snubby test here a while back and and that's another which unfortunately I don't have it in front of me and I don't shoot it very often, unless it's a revolver day, and then I typically pull it up on my phone and I was looking. I couldn't find the link. I can't. It's the part times, everything's in groups of five and it's a 15 round deal. But that one is a really good barometer of skill on a B8 repair center Tends to be one of my favorites because it's pretty easily scoreable and it's challenging but at the same time it'll tell you kind of where you're at with shooting a revolver pretty, pretty quick. So in that that super snubby doesn't involve any reloads but it's a good balance of speed and accuracy, and accuracy is king regardless of what anybody tells you it's you know speeds, all good, but accuracy is what? What finishes fights and what stops bad people from doing bad things? So yeah, it's got to hit your target to stop the threat.

Speaker 1: 45:35

Not only that, you got to hit it in the right spot, right.

Speaker 2: 45:42

Handguns. A 38 special that's.357 is about the size of a what is it? 355, 356, 357. It's like a drill bit man, it's just going to punch a hole. All the hollow point technology in the world doesn't do. Doesn't do you a thing if you shoot somebody in the ankle. So you know the B8 repair center. If you haven't heard on the podcast before, there's one just over my right shoulder, right there. That's about the size of the target. Darrell bulky says a great fruit or a large orange in in the high center chest is about where you need to be all the time Right. Even Ipsic A zones are a little too forgiving on the elevation side. It kind of extends down there into. Wayne calls it the goodles, right, and I've. I've interviewed a lot of gut shot felons, a lot of them, and it's you know, a lot of times it wasn't even a fight stopper. So that B8 repair center, the black of that B8 repair center is just. To me is like the perfect target. I've been on that for five or six years. It really holds you accountable. So I do 99% of my practice on one of those right there.

Speaker 1: 47:10

So okay, Well, if somebody wanted to reach out to Brian or things that you're involved in, where would they look and how would they contact you or the things that you're involved?

Speaker 2: 47:25

Well, I'm on the Facebooks. My page is private, but EDC Belt Company. We have a Facebook page and I monitor all the correspondence there. If you ping an email there, it pings to me. So that's one way I do most of my class. If I'm going to do a class advertisement, it goes out there as well. The Off-Duty, on-duty podcast, again, if you ping that one for a question or something that goes to me I forgot to mention in the pre-show I actually have a Patreon page that was the hat I couldn't remember For $3 a month. I do everything from training tips to how to take apart and maintain your revolvers, some custom work. I do some 1911 stuff because that's kind of on the rise again and there's a lot of people that forgot. It's 112-year-old technology. You need to learn how to maintain it. It's the equivalent of driving a stick shift, you know. Then, if you message me there, like I said, I have to charge something for that because it's pretty time-consuming, but three bucks a month. I even do it where, if you want to send in a request, I'll dig something up Off-Duty, on-duty, edc Built Company Patreon, and that's pretty much it. I took down my training page because I just wasn't doing much with it and it was just an extra layer. Then on Instagram, I am Brian, with a why not? I? All one word underscore. I don't do much training stuff on that one. It's just post up pictures of where I've been and what we're doing, so post some historical revolver stuff, yeah. And then I'm doing a lot of work with Darrell Bulkey. He has hardwired integrated tactical shooting or hits on Facebook. So if we do a class, that's usually there you'll. You'll ping it there. So that's the five ways you can get ahold of me.

Speaker 1: 49:49

Okay, and if anybody was actually wanting to hear some training knowledge from you, I know that each year, the last couple of years, you've been teaching out at the Guardian Conference, which is this month. I haven't been to one of those yet and I really want to try to make in the next year or so. Make a trip out to one of those.

Speaker 2: 50:12

Yeah, that one's coming up middle of the month here, I think, in what is today. Today's the fourth, so it's in like 11 days, 11 or 12 days, I can't remember. I got to be there a day early and stay, stay through that Monday. So yeah, it's the 15th, 16th, 17th, so 11 days away. Okay, and that's the nice part about that conference and I'll, if you don't mind me talking about it a little bit. Yeah, and this is not a shameless plug for Come Train with Me. We have a whole host of instructors, guys like Eric Gilhouse, who is a gun site range master. For like the last 20 years he's written the gun site red dot optics training protocols and a lot of that. He's probably the most unknown and absolutely best trainers on the face of the planet and I don't say that lightly, he is a friend of mine. But seriously, if you get a chance, he's got Cougar Mountain Solutions is the name of his company. So when he's not working at gun site he goes on the road and teaches red dot low light vehicle stuff. I mean a lot of leo centric stuff. But I went through his red dot instructor course and that was probably one of the best, best investments I've ever made and because it was a true instructor development. It wasn't just a shoot a bunch of drills and go home and everybody high five. It was a lot of in depth stuff and that he's he'll be there at the conference so you have like four hours of access to the guy or if you take two classes from him, like eight hours of time that you can. You can interact with him. Wayne Dobbs doesn't do a whole lot of open enrollment training anymore. He's got one coming up in Grandbury Texas in November but it's very he does very limited amount of access to that guy and he'll be there. Of course, riley Bowman, mickey shook, carry trainer. But the biggest thing I appreciate about that conference is breakfast, lunch and on several nights dinner is covered. So you know we got sponsors that cater in a dinner like two of the three nights You've got. Lunch is delivered on site, breakfast They've got like a juice bar and you know, just snacks for breakfast. But you know, if you think about the logistics of going to a conference and OK, I've got to pay for a place to stay, pay for how to get there and I got to pay for chow, nine meals, 10 meals while you're there, I mean think of the cost savings of that Right Right and EDC Belt Company. We sell. We sell belts out there at a little discounted rate. There's ammo for sale. I mean it's. It's the total kind of self contained conference.

Speaker 1: 53:23

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:25

So I recommend it if you, if you get a chance and and it's, like you know, ages 21 to 80 and and all points in between and all skill levels, and it covers a pretty broad base. And then next year I'm teaching it range master tackon. But it sold out in like 12 minutes this year. So if you're not in on that one, you're not going to get on until 2024. And yeah, tom invited me to teach there this year and then again next year, so I'll be doing a block there. And then I've got big text ordinance. If you're in the Texas area, october 21st, I'm doing a one day practical revolver skills course that you know, bring what you got and it's going to be kind of just a broad brush overview of revolvers for eight hours and I think it's 225 bucks, with the range fee guy named Alex Sansone, the suited shoot is hosting that and he's doing all the ads and money and all that for me. So, and I have, I I've taught that class like twice for private gigs. I've never done it open enrollment and I've always vetted all the students before I did it. And this time I'm, I'm, I'm. I got thrown a curveball, so I'm going to do my best to knock it over the fence.

Speaker 1: 54:54

Okay, you got anything, david, I think I'm good. Well, one of the questions that we are going to start asking this year for all of our guests. What's a hobby or something you do for relaxation, I would say away from your normal job and everyday routine. But since you're in that retirement but still working phase, what do you do for relaxation? What's your favorite thing to do?

Speaker 2: 55:25

Oh man, that's, that's a bit of a loaded question. Man, I really have grown fond of like traveling. That sounds kind of cliche, but for the last 25 years traveling was kind of a mess for me and I never really liked it. I don't guess that's a hobby, because most of the traveling I'm doing is gun centric stuff. So I try to build in some time there to do to do something else. Right, my dear friend Darrell bulky and I went to Lake Havasu back in January and I was like, wow, I can walk around and not carry a gun and feel just fine, this is cool. Other than that, like I play guitar, that's. That's kind of one of my my deals. And then my, my gal and I are our favorite pastime is pick some eclectic restaurant or, you know, find dining establishment and like once a month we try to go and like, ok, this is not something we would normally do on a Tuesday, but we're going to go to this real high end steakhouse and see what that's about. So that's, yeah, that's fun times and I know that it doesn't sound like a hobby but it's. It's just kind of a guilty pleasure of mine that we do.

Speaker 1: 56:49

But yeah, well, it's straight things to all. Of us are different, we're in unique individuals, so we all have our own favorite thing that we like or that kind of gives us that reprieve from reality, I guess. And yeah, mine's listening to music or, even though I do the training range, therapy is always great.

Speaker 2: 57:18

Yeah, the range for me is a workout in business now, so it's not as much of a hobby. So I kind of look at going to the range is like going to the gym and then I do some gunsmithing work and I know it like all those. Only two of those are not gun centric but I really enjoy like shutting the door on on the shop my dad and I have a little gunsmith shop shutting the door on the shop, turn the AC on, turn music up and do something meaningful, you know, customize in 1911 or work on a revolver or fix something that's been broken for 100 years. I mean that's a that's pretty rewarding. I've got a couple of you know projects that I like to work on. Or, like I said, ty telling you I did a Haney McMood handed me a 1931 Colt and says can you put a cart barrel in this and do this and put this beaver tail in this hammer and these sights? And I was like yeah yeah, here we go Do that and that that's pretty rewarding, especially, you know, we test fired it in Georgia and I was like, hey, it shoots are really good and it works really well and it just kind of resurrected this old gun, you know, gave it a second life. So, yeah, that kind of stuff is is pretty fun.

Speaker 1: 58:45

Okay, all right. So, brian, I appreciate you joining us and talking about revolvers and I enjoyed the conversation and the time with you and maybe we might have you back on a future podcast episode for another topic or revisit this one 1911 spring me back for 1911.

Speaker 2: 59:06

And yeah, it's the one thing I know more than anything else about, so yeah, yeah, Okay, All right.

Speaker 1: 59:13

Well, thank you for joining us and, as always, y'all Remember the motto learn, train and survive. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast or those of the host and the guest and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the podcast publisher, its affiliates or any other entity. The information contained in this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be construed as medical, legal or financial advice. The podcast publisher and its affiliates assume no responsibility for any liability, loss or damage caused by the use of information contained in this podcast. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional before making any decisions based on the information contained in this podcast.